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TOPIC: effigy stone

effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3869

This one is made from a golden jasper. It's almost 5 cm tall, and is 2 cm thick. The picture doesn't show the varnish as well as I would hope, but it is glossed all around. It is squared with several right angles. In fact when held right it has a 2cm square flat head. It also has a sharp rasp like concave area that would carve a dowel a little smaller than a pencil. (Sorry it's on the back side.) This pic was taken to show the image on it rather than show the tooling on it. The guy with the beard is easy to see, but what I'd like to note is what looks like an older guy with his hand on his shoulder. I am looking for opinions on what this might be, besides a rock, that much is obvious. Even if you don't buy the effigy, your opinion is important to me, there are some very knowledgeable people here. Questions and hypothetical theories, would be more constructive.
bjdone.JPG
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3870

The image on the right has been doctored very slightly. The one on the left is untouched.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3874

  • Wildhorse
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Please don't take me wrong here. I just don't think that our american Indians made anything so crude. When they carved something it is very nicely done. Clean and clear as to what they wanted. Never in all my years of artifacts have I ever seen something that you have to look at for a while and try to figure out. Clean and clear carvings. Our Indians were just not into making something that they could not show off and be proud of their work. Even the very old carvings I have seen were clear and we had no problem knowing just what the artist was trying to say. If you had lived back then would you be happy making something that others could not be sure just what it was? Keep looking and with luck you may come up with something beautiful. Good luck and have a super day.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3879

  • gregszybala
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What a waste
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Re: effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3885

  • greywolf22
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That looks like a rock to me, but it is good looking rock. I do mean to pick at you, but what you are showing us is not an artifact.

If you do not trust us send it to one of the big name authenticators out there and see what they will say. I think you be wasting your money but at least you will know.

This is a picture of what is called a Count Stone. Its a called a Count Stone because of the notches in the side, without the notches its just a interesting rock.

We are not even sure it was used as a Count Stone because we have no ideal what it was used for because the ones who used it are long dead, we just surmise it was used for that purpose.

Jack

11_Countstone___Oregon-20110105.jpg
Last Edit: 3 years 11 months ago by greywolf22.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3886

  • tomclark
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Holy Cow that's a trip (the guy with the beard)

Artifact? Dunno.

If I found that on a known site, not a driveway or place where there are lots of similar material/sized stones, and it was purposefully ground all over, not desert varnished or applied patina or rolled around in a gravel bar, I'd call it an artifact. I have seen many of the crudest and Worst of the Worst artifacts that have made me think just "WHY?!?"

I'd like to see real closeups of the edges, not the Man.
Is Golden Japer common there, ever find points made of it in the same area?

If you collect on one village site for a long time you will find that they picked up all kinds of odd or effigy looking stones, just like we do. Sometimes they are modified, sometimes not or just barely. I've found similar looking ground rocks (sans effigies!)in with other tools and debitage. I like rocks.

Here is my Thumb Effigy ;)


Here is my "Rumi" effigy :unsure: :S


;)
Note "False Hardpan"
Sorry for the HiJack. Boom.
Professor Shellman
Last Edit: 3 years 11 months ago by tomclark.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3900

  • gregszybala
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Tom, what did it take you, all of five minutes to dig that hole? Way to much coffee? :woohoo:
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3904

Looks like a plain old rock to me.

Tom you need to slow down. You will break some good stuff digging that fast :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3909

Thanks for the input guys.

You know when I first stumbled upon these I just thought it was just an odd coincidence. It's true at the time I was out hunting for arrow heads, but I was also very active in my lapidary hobby. I do everything from slabs to faceting, and so I was also looking for material to make jewelry out of. So I am very familiar with rock types, how they fracture, and how they skin. I also have a pretty big collection of arrowheads that I found over the years. I have already taken these to a couple of people that are highly respected in our community to get a second opinion. Their opinion was that these were artifacts. One prominent collector tried real hard to get me to sell him one but I wouldn't. After seeing some of these in person , the owner of the Flavell Museum asked me to put on a class for his group. He was very impressed. The curator of the St. Helens Museum practically begged me to donate one.

That being said, if someone tried to show me one of these before I knew what I know now I would have thought them nuts, so I can imagine what some of you must think of me. I also have seen some of the fringe sights that claim something similar, and am deeply troubled by them. This is not the same. So far I have been very vague, and I apologize. Nothing I have said so far would have convinced me either. In fact, unless I saw these in person myself, with an explanation, I don't think I would believe it either. So I do understand the skeptisism.

As far as these being hard to see. My opinion is that it was intentional. I believe that they were to appear magic. The way I convince people in person is to do a demonstration that seems like magic. That's when the people I show start to get it. If you know the specific set of characters that were used, and you know the pattern in which they were laid out in, it suddenly becomes a lot easier to read. What I'm hoping to do is in time give enough information that you can find these for yourselves. That is after all the only real proof. Some of it is very complicated, and would take a while too explain in this forum, so please be patient. So please bear with me while I reveal the pieces of the puzzle. If nothing else it will be an interesting diversion.

Here's a start. A guy in Europe saw my stuff, and sent me a picture of his. I said if what he was finding was the same as mine it would have something like this in it.
European_Extraction.jpg


Note the volcano, then count the shamans wearing the leopard skin hood. Most people have seen the picture with the illusion of the old hag and the beautiful young woman. It all depends on how the mind sees it. I believe that to be similar to one of the techniques they used, although that's putting it simply.

Now here's the picture he sent me.

He was only trying to show the rough head image with the yellow eyes that takes a little bit to see.

What I did was take his pic, tell the computer to adjust the contrast to the extreme so it washed out to only black and white then I cut out a piece of it. That picture is the black and white I just showed. See if you can find where I cut it from the original pic.

I have to go to work now so don't have time to say more , but I'll write more later. Have fun with this. I know I do.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3910

Oops, wrong second picture. Sorry. Here it is.

European_Effigy.jpg
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3911

Man I just don't see it? Nature has a way of creating things that look like things the clouds are a perfect example or the face of a mountain. Combine this with the imagination of the human mind and we can see anything in everything. The fact is ancient artifacts were formed by human hands chipping , grinding, rubbing, drilling etc., and there is obvious physical evidence on the artifact of this not just rock formations. If these are in fact artifacts then I have tossed an entire museum display in the creek. You can believe what you want it makes no difference to me. Just turn off the imagination for a minute and physically look at the stone itself. I do believe in Santa though. :) :)
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3912

You are absolutely right about natures creations, and I am very aware of the minds sense of face and our habit of seeing things we think are there. After all the eye only sees a small percentage of what's there and the mind fills in the rest. I have studied this phenomena for years now, and have gone to great pains to be sure that I'm not just seeing what I want. In time I will explain some of the steps I take to make sure there is some discipline to the mind when viewing them. A good book on this subject is "The Ring of Truth".

By the way, I hope you remembered where you threw those, you may want them back after you see what I intend to show over the next few days. (I've barely scratched the surface.) Until then just view this as a distraction say like crop circles, and have fun with it. Like I said, I know that I required a lot more proof than what I have shown so far, and your skeptisism is well founded.
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3918

  • greywolf22
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So far it sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I cannot see what you are seeing. IMHO.

Jack
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3925

It makes me dizzy to read this thread.LOL
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Re:effigy stone 3 years 11 months ago #3931

  • Wildhorse
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David; I agree it is strange. A far distance from our artifacts. Should be in some other forum somewhere with dreams or visions. I would love to know if our Native Americans really made these things how? How could they have created such things with out any trace of their work?????. Perhaps they had help? Flying saucers people from space who could change stone and leave no trace???? I had a sister(gone now) who could see these kind of things. Problem was she was high most of the time and that gave her the power to see. Somewhere there has to be a way these were made?? You can't take a stone age culture and get things done by them without any trace of how they were created. I belive that our strange stones are just strange stones and there is no way we can connect them with our Native American Indians. All this is just my thinking OK.
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